Historic Formula Ford 2000 Association

Ken Thorogood has tried to contact some of the people who have Rf82 s a couple of years back and we had a meeting at Mallory Park after one of the race meetings in 2012 to try to get some feedback and support for picking up the championship but there was lots of talk and promises of doing things like someone offering to improve / update the website and ......nothing much happened .Poor old Ken said that he had not asked to inherit the Classic Ff2000 championship it got foisted on him and he hasn,t got time to keep trying to encourage people out who don,t want to come out but nobody else has offered to support him ( promised yes , acted on it no ) .
Speaking personally , we moved across from URS to Hscc because of the variety of cars eligible made it more interesting , Alan Morgan actively promoted it and Hscc backed him up .

I can certainly identify with Ken with regard to running the championship... The work required to try keeping everyone engaged, informed and happy is considerable...

Here is a 'simple' event for the Bank Holiday Monday and shows just a fraction of what goes into it...
http://www.monoposto.co.uk/2015/08/tiedeman-trophy-rnds-1-2-castle-combe/

I was at that meeting, my recollection was that very little could be found in the way of suggestions, the usual old stuff, combined weights, and, as you said, improve the website. Combined weights were tried with no noticeable change and a great deal of bad feeling. Ian started a facebook page on behalf of URS, I regularly helped Ken trying to contact drivers and coax them to enter, until this year when it is became a lost cause.
As far as I can see, the formula has run it's course in it's present form, the cars have fell into the hands of people who either can't or won't bring them out to race, they can't be forced to either sell them or race them, it's thier decision as they own them and this has to be faced. Similar things have happened to other formulas in the past. Either a huge re-birth of the formula is undertaken or we will be forever, as this year, cadging drives with other failing formulas.
Just to clarify what you said Ian, Universal racing Services is the sponsor of the series and Ken is the driver's rep. I'm pretty sure this has been the situation since about 1990!!

Cff1600 turned their c-ship around maybe ask them how

Did CFF 1600 ever get into trouble? If they did, it wasn't as serious as us as they still have a championship. It seems the four entries for this weekend at Oulton has now risen to seven, at least that is better news.

I'm sure that it's possible to bring the grids back up to 20+ cars soon enough. HSCC FF2000 and Classic FF1600 both have healthy grids despite the cars being very similar and the cars actually costing more to buy - we've just got to understand what it will take to either get people out in their cars or to sell them on to attract new blood to the series.

Maybe others have a better understanding of this than I do but these are some of the things I'd want to ask before working out the best direction for the series.

What's stopping people who own cars from racing and what could we do to change that?



Number of races/Which circuits
Eg are we diluting the numbers with too many rounds at unpopular circuits while numbers are low?
Which rounds/races are still attracting the biggest numbers and why? How can we tap into that?

Entry Fee Cost/VFM

Race format
What's the right mix of double headers/ single races (also links into VFM)

Competition
Too hard / too easy to win? Is it a level playing field?

Weight limits
See Chris's threads

Car not eligible
Are there a lot of later FF2000 cars waiting for somewhere to race? Would it make sense to allow similar single seaters to race with us (eg early Formula Renaults with some kind of performance equalisation?)

Timetable
Are we always last on the timetable or are 2 day meetings a problem?
Clashes with HSCC FF2000 for class B cars?

Class B
Are we missing an opportunity to get more class B cars out with us when we race with HSCC? If the timetables can be aligned and perhaps a discount offered for entering both races surely it becomes an attractive proposition for class B car owners to race in both series?


Iain (Rowley) and Steven (Connor) - As you're part of this thread it would be interesting to know why your RF82s haven't raced in URS for some time and what it would take for you to get them on track?


What's stopping new people from joining the series?

Lack of available cars
I can't help but feel that one of the biggest problems is that there aren't any cars for sale! Many people who are in the market for a swap of series are just going to be looking at what comes up affordably on Race cars direct or on the championship website etc. I can't remember seeing an eligible car for URS for sale in over a year. There aren't any on Ken's site either.
Why is that? How can we make it easier for those who want to sell their cars to do so? Fundamentally if everyone is simply sitting on the cars as long term "investments" then we are all screwed! Unless they are out there running in a viable series the value will never go up. Either we need to convince them to race, sell, or else expand the championship to allow other cars.

Do people realise we exist?
Yes we have a website, but it's pretty dated. There's no link to this forum and no content (videos, pictures, results) etc to draw anyone in once they find it.

Who do we want to attract into the series?
For example - there are so many track day drivers who have this idea that single seaters are too expensive and difficult to work on. I've spoken to many who wouldn't take a lot of convincing to make the switch once they've seen a car close up and spoken to someone who runs one.
Maybe we don't want to aim for rookies - then how can we make the series more attractive than the alternatives?


That's probably just the tip of the iceberg. If we can all get our heads together and can speak to the other owners of the cars perhaps we can get an clear idea of what it will take to bring the numbers back up.

Wow... plenty of questions.

Personally... Sorry that I add to the problem by holding on to a pair of RF82s that rarely come out, I can't really afford to race them these days (going out for Silverstone GP Libre races in September will be my only race in 2 years). Even when I was racing regularly I rarely did URS races because I just didn't enjoy BARC meetings, despite (or maybe because of) being an ex BARC marshal 30 years ago. I have commented to Drew that now he is taking over at BARC he has plenty to do. I have always found the HSCC and recently the MSVR meetings to just 'feel' better and steered people wanting to rent my cars to those events.

Looking back at the old F4 days I started when Class A 1.6 CVH engine cars should have always beaten the Class B RF81/2... but Mike Whatley could still put in a performance to win in his RF. It was still 'class' racing but a good nut behind the wheel could win from any class. Plenty of Deltas from people like Iain as well. As F4 moved to the US spec Zetec cars (the ones Mono inherited when 750 imploded) then the Deltas etc that had become class C drifted away and then so did the other 2000's (I think I ran the last Pinto in 750F4)

Despite my 1 pole with URS there really was no expectation that I was one of the 3 or 4 people who had a chance of winning one of these races so quite frankly I was already in the same class as the majority of the racers... the "We won't win" class which is a factor I think a lot of club series need to remember. As Mike Whatley used to put it "if we don't look after the majority of the racers then there won't be a race for the likes of me to win"

Frankly all the talk about combined weights over 20 years gets me down. I know physics says weight must matter but not to the point it should drive a formula like us. The best race series are ones run as a dictatorship so someone should just impose the combined weight limit, it will make ##### all difference to the results and after a year no one will even question it. The quality of the drivers is far more significant than 10Kg here or there (at our level). It is a placebo.. It is a marketing gimmick but if it satisfies some people then just do it and move on.

With my Mono experience I see that there isn't 'one size that fits all'. Mono took the decision several years ago to look at providing good value for money racing on nice circuits.. you won't find Mono booking Cadwell short (because it is cheap) like we almost always got in F4.. Only ever got Brands GP with F4 once and that came about as something to do with swapping meeting dates (was that to accomodate Bernie and F1?) Coming in this year I inherited a cracking calendar (thanks to Douglas McLay) that happened to have all the main rounds with MSVR... I have marketed the hell out of it and am pleased to say we have been at near capacity (usually on 2 grids ever since). Yes an RF82 could have won outright on one of our grids at some of our meetings... on the recent showing of Dan Gore in my RF82 I do hope that is going to happen... but usually they would be fighting for class honours.

I have been impressed with negotiating with all the race providers and find they are open to sensible business ideas.

Having seen the relative value of my 2 cars drop in relation to the Deltas and Reynards I didn't buy in 1990, I would love to see a flourishing CFF2000 championship... but saddened to suspect the things needed to make it happen just won't.

Oh well.. happy to have a long chat with anyone down Brands way or at any of the many Mono events still to come in 2015.

PS we have had Mono cars on display (and getting free tracktime) At Retro Kings and other events (Snetterton, Brands and Croft last weekend)... people are amazingly shocked how cost effective a single seater can be when compared to their 'bling' road cars...

Nice to see that 97 Tatuus lined up there, that certainly brings back good memories.

Any of you who are not going to Oulton Park this weekend are welcome to come along for a chat at Castle Combe on Monday ( I have plenty of passes available)... or even join in and race... we have one RF82 (not mine) entered and currently 5 spare slots on the grid. £275 for quali and 2 races (no club membership fee required) http://www.monoposto.co.uk/2015/08/tiedeman-trophy-rnds-1-2-castle-combe/

ps: you can see our entry list online by following that link... I can't see yours!... I have always thought publishing the lists nice and early is a good 'come on' to get other people to come out (and saves those questions of "have you received my entry?".. "is Fred racing?"... "how many have we got?") I would have loved the internet when I started racing as I like all the latest news about how a race meeting is developing so back then just getting the finals and entry list through the post from Robin Knight a week before the event was far less satisfying.

Some interesting statistics:

In 2015 there have been 20 different Class A cars that have raced in the series and 3 Class B

Between 2013-2015 there have been 30* different class A cars that have raced in the championship and 12 Class B

*May be overstated by 1-2 cars where I am unaware of change of ownership

I think that does show there is plenty of potential there for a thriving series as there are plenty of cars ready to race - we've just got to find a way of getting them all out together more often.


Below I've also pulled together some average grid statistics by circuit, year, race weekend format and club/classes.

One thing that really strikes me is that we're really not attracting many class B cars, especially to the HSCC rounds where we race with CF3.